Eiri, are you actually pro-life?

Here are COMMON complications that can arise just from being pregnant:

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Common Complications
Gestational diabetes
Extreme thirst, hunger, or fatigue (but usually no symptoms). Also, a blood sugar value of 140 mg/DL or greater on a diabetes test. This is a form of diabetes that usually occurs in the second half of pregnancy.

High-blood Pressure/Pre-eclampsia
High-blood pressure (usually around 140/90); protein in the urine; swelling of the hands and face; sudden weight gain (1 pound a day or more); blurred vision; severe headaches, dizziness; intense stomach pain.

High-blood Pressure/Pre-eclampsia:
This is pregnancy-related high blood pressure. It can also be called toxemia. Pre-eclampsia usually occurs after about 30 weeks of pregnancy.
Blood pressure test; urine test; evaluation by a doctor. The only cure is delivery, which may not be best for the baby. Labor will probably be induced if condition is mild and woman is near term (37 to 40 weeks of pregnancy). If a woman is not yet ready for labor, her doctor may monitor her and her baby closely. May require bed rest at home or in hospital, until blood pressure stabilizes or until delivery.

Hyperemesis gravidarum
Severe constant nausea and/or vomiting several times every day for the first three or four months of pregnancy. This is severe nausea in the first trimester that can cause malnourishment and dehydration in some women. HG keeps pregnant women from drinking enough fluids and eating enough food to stay healthy. Many women with HG lose more than 5 percent of their pre-pregnancy weight, have nutritional problems, and have problems with the balance of electrolytes in their bodies. If you think you might be vomiting excessively, call your doctor. Your doctor will check you to see if you are dehydrated, which can be dangerous for you and the baby. Many women with HG have to be hospitalized so they can be fed fluids and nutrients through a tube in their veins. Usually, women with HG begin to feel better by the 20th week of pregnancy. But some women vomit and feel nauseated throughout all three trimesters.

Placental Abruption
Vaginal bleeding during the second half of pregnancy; cramping, abdominal pain, and uterine tenderness. This is a condition in which the placenta separates from the uterine wall before delivery. This can deprive the fetus of oxygen. Severe cases (when more than half of the placenta separates) can require immediate medical attention and delivery of the baby.

Placenta Previa
In this condition, the placenta (temporary organ joining mother and fetus) covers part or the entire cervix. Placental previa can cause severe bleeding usually at the end of the second trimester or later.
If diagnosed after the 20th week of pregnancy, but with no bleeding, requires to cut back on activity level and increase bed rest. If bleeding is heavy, requires hospitalization until mother and baby are stable. If the bleeding stops or is light, requires continued bed rest until baby is ready for delivery. If bleeding doesn't stop or if pre-term labor starts, baby will be delivered by cesarean.

Premature or Pre-term Labor
Contractions, either painful or painless, anytime during pregnancy, that occur more than four times an hour, or are less than 15 minutes apart; menstrual like cramps that come and go; abdominal cramps with or without diarrhea; dull backache that may radiate around to the abdomen; increase in or change in color in vaginal discharge; constant or intermittent pelvic pressure.
This is when a woman goes into labor after 20 weeks, but before 37 weeks of pregnancy.

Toxoplasmosis
This is a parasitic infection that can be passed on to the baby. The parasite that causes toxoplasmosis is sometimes found in cat feces, soil, and raw or undercooked meat.

Listeriosos
Flu-like illness with fever, muscle aches, chills, and sometimes diarrhea or nausea that can progress to severe headache and stiff neck.
This infection is cause by the bacterium listeria monocytogenes. This bacterium can be found in soft cheeses and ready-to-eat deli meats.

Urinary Tract Infection
Pain or burning when urinating; pain in lower pelvis, lower back, stomach or side; shaking, chills; fever; sweats; nausea, vomiting; frequent or uncontrollable urge to urinate; strong-smelling urine; change in amount of urine; blood or pus in urine; pain during sex.
If this infection is left untreated it can spread to the kidneys. This can cause premature, or early, labor.

Ectopic Pregnancy
Slight, irregular vaginal bleeding that often is brownish; pain in the lower abdomen, often on one side, and can be followed by severe pelvic pain; shoulder pain; faintness or dizziness; nausea or vomiting.
In this condition, the fertilized egg implants outside of the uterus, usually in the fallopian tube.
Because the embryo of an ectopic pregnancy cannot survive, it is removed surgically; or the woman is treated with a cancer drug, methotrexate, which dissolves the pregnancy.

Post-partum Depression:
Intense feelings of sadness, guilt, despair, helplessness, anxiety, irritability, which may disrupt your ability to function; appetite changes; thoughts of self-harm or harming your baby; "baby blues" haven't gone away after 2 weeks.
This is when women become depressed in the first year after giving birth. This serious problem needs medical attention and treatment.

Mastitis:
Soreness or a lump in the breast accompanied by a fever and/or flu-like symptoms; possibly nausea and vomiting; yellowish discharge from the nipple; breasts feel warm or hot to the touch; pus or blood in the milk; red streaks near the area; symptoms could come on severely and suddenly.
This is an infection in the breast.

Fifth Disease:
A low-grade fever and tiredness followed by a facial rash that looks like "slapped cheeks." The rash also can look lace-like and be on the trunk, legs, and arms. Some adults do not have the rash, but may have painful and swollen joints.
This is a viral infection caused by the human parvovirus B19. Most pregnant women who are infected with this virus do not have serious problems. But, there is a small danger that the virus can infect the fetus. This raises the risk of miscarriage during the first 20 weeks of pregnancy. Fifth Disease can cause severe anemia in women who have red blood cell disorders like sickle-cell disease or immune system problems.
http://www.4woman.gov/pregnancy/complications/

Here are some more, follow the link at the end to find out more about each one:

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Discomforts During Pregnancy

* The Basics

* Aches and Pains

* Back Pain

* Breast Changes

* Constipation

* Cravings

* Fatigue

* Headaches

* Hemorrhoids

* Incontinence

* Mood Swings

* Morning Sickness

* Mouth / Dental Issues

* Nosebleeds

* Shortness of Breath

* Skin and Hair Changes

* Sleep Issues

* Swelling (Edema), Varicose Veins and Leg Cramps

* Urination Problems

Disorders During Pregnancy

* The Basics

* AIDS/HIV

* Amniotic Fluid Disorders

* Bed Rest

* Bleeding

* Blighted Ovum

* Chickenpox (Varicella)

* Cholestasis of Pregnancy

* Deep Vein Thrombosis

* Fibroids of the Uterus

* Group B Strep Infection

* Incompetent Cervix

* Infectious Diseases

* Intrauterine Growth Restriction

* Molar Pregnancy

* Multiples Pregnancy Issues

* Pica

* Premature Rupture of Membranes (PROM)

* Rubella
http://www.noah-health.org/en/pregnancy/problems/

Here's even more information:

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So Many US Women Die During Pregnancy -- Many Poor Countries Do Better
The United States has a sharply higher rate of women dying during or just after pregnancy than European countries, even some relatively poor countries such as Macedonia and Bosnia, according to the first estimates in five years on maternal deaths worldwide.
http://v.mercola.com/blogs/post.aspx?App=public_blog&PostID=39620&Subscribed=1

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The leading killers
Fully 42 percent of all pregnancies suffer complications – in rich and poor countries
alike – and in 15 percent of all pregnancies, the complications are life-threatening.1
www.womendeliver.org/fact/WD_Killers-Solutions_(SP).pdf

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There are many complications that can occur in the six to eight weeks — or even up to a year or more — following a birth. For instance, thyroid disease occurs in 5% of women in the year after giving birth. Other common problems are urinary and fecal incontinence, postpartum depression, pelvic pain, and dental problems.

The CDC has also reported that most maternal deaths occur following birth, during the postpartum period. It is clear that doctors and hospital staff, especially emergency room personnel, need to focus more effort and understanding on women during the postpartum period.

Here is a list of some complications many women suffer during the postpartum period:

Anemia
Autoimmune Conditions
Back Pain
Blood Transfusion
Breast Mastitis (JAMA April 2003)
Cesarean Complications
Death
Dental Problems
Depression
Eclampsia
Fecal Incontinence
Gallbladder problems
Heart Problems
Hemorrhage
Hernia
Hysterectomy
Inability to Breastfeed
Painful Intercourse
Pelvic Trauma
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Prolapsed uterus
Retained Placenta
Skin Disorders
Thyroid Problems
Traumatic Birth
Urinary Incontinence
Urinary Retention
Vaginal Reconstruction
Vulva Pain

Every day in the United States, between 2 and 3 women die of maternal complications. For every death there are thousands of other women who suffer serious postpartum complications.
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:oTP3xF8TpHoJ:www.safermaternity.org/postpartum.html
+how+many+women+suffer+complications+during+pregnancy+childbirth+u.s.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=
14&gl=us&client=firefox-a

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U.S. women are dying from childbirth at the highest rate in decades, new government figures show.
The U.S. maternal mortality rate rose to 13 deaths per 100,000 live births in 2004, according to statistics released this week by the National Center for Health Statistics.

The rate was 12 per 100,000 live births in 2003 — the first time the maternal death rate rose above 10 since 1977.
[T]he fact that maternal deaths are rising at all these days is shocking, said Tim Davis, a Virginia man whose wife Elizabeth died after childbirth in 2000.
“The hardest thing to understand is how in this day and age, in a modern hospital with doctors and nurses, that somebody can just die like that,” he said.

No explanation
Sometimes, there is no clear explanation for a woman’s death.

Valerie Scythes, a 35-year-old elementary schoolteacher, died in March at a hospital in New Jersey — the state with the highest Caesarean section rate. She had had a C-section, as did another teacher at the same school who died after giving birth at the same hospital two weeks later.

However, Scythes died of a blocked blood vessel and the other woman died from bleeding, said John Baldante, a Philadelphia attorney investigating the death for Scythes’ family.

“I’m not sure there was any connection between the two deaths,” Baldante said.

Also mysterious was the death of Tim Davis’ 37-year-old wife, Elizabeth, who died a day after a vaginal delivery at a Danville, Va., hospital in September 2000.

She had a heart attack after a massive blood loss, Davis said. It’s not clearly known what caused the heavy bleeding. There was no autopsy, he said, a decision he now regrets.

Two previous births had gone well.

“Nothing led us to believe anything was wrong with this pregnancy. She was like a picture of health,” he continued, noting she had been a YMCA fitness instructor.

A lawsuit against the hospital ended in a settlement. Davis also sued the obstetrician, but a jury ruled in the doctor’s favor.

The child born that day, Ethan, starts second grade next week. “He’s a happy kid,” Davis said. “He’s just never had a mom.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427256/

EiriForLife wrote:

A natural end to a pregnancy is birth or miscarriage. Not abortion.

An miscarriage is an abortion.

EiriForLife wrote:

I heard a lot of eHealth of women not going to their follow-ups... though I suppose any death/injury is then their fault, not the fault of the surgeon.

Yes, it is. The woman is responsible for her follow ups.

EiriForLife wrote:

That's why I'm pro-life. I don't think anyone should have the right to kill another human being unless their own life is directly in danger.

Considering all pregnancies can result in death, who are you to dictate which woman's life is good enough to risk?

Good question, XWOMAN. I think we scared her off, though.

EIRI, come back!

It's hard to argue when you know youare on the wrong side.

R O F L !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

futureshock wrote:

Good question, XWOMAN. I think we scared her off, though.

EIRI, come back!

That scared her off? Christ on the cross... she would be in tears over at GN with me!

I looked at prolifeamerica and she is posting over there. guess the crowd is more pleasing?

i had a laugh at some of the posters. seriously, "womb child" and this one dude (i assume) talks about women who don't want children like there is something pathologically wrong with them. lot of preaching. Really awful things said to each other. What a waste of bandwidth.

Yes, that is one sick site. Did you see how they treat Eiri? Let's just say it's not good.

futureshock wrote:

Yes, that is one sick site. Did you see how they treat Eiri? Let's just say it's not good.

i see how they treat alot of people. There is that sick guy on there who takes photos of women going into clinics and puts them online. And this other guy who believes sex should be regulated by the government. Those people are fucks.

I don't think they are "extremists" though, I think they are the heart of the pro-life movement in the u.s.

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

i said that abortion has nolongterm effects

But that's a lie.

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so there is no reason a doctor looking at your lungs needs to know about your abortion at sixteen like theywouldn't need to know you had a tooth pulled at 12.

I would still want it in my record. In the military medical system nothing is hidden. I'm not ashamed of any procedure I have had done to me. I have nothing to hide. Do you? Why would you want to hide an abortion?

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the mental effects are up to debate depending on which prolife site youread, but that is not something that needs put in your MED records, tho.

Depending on which pro-choice site you've read too. Even pro-choice sites admit that somewhere between 10-20% of women regret their abortion.

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I don't know why you say it should still be there other than youthink it should.

Because it is a medical procedure. Any medical procedure should be documented in your medical records. I'm actually shocked that this is not common law. I don't know why you're saying it shouldn't be on your record unless you're ashamed of it and don't want anyone to know you've had one. A doctor isn't allowed to blab about it, so what are you afraid of?

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if there is sterility (sp?) or other problems then that isadifferent matter and your ob/gyn would need to know but not your general med record. if you had an abortion with no effects then it's as important to be in your record as your cavity filling at age 16.

Your cavity fillings ARE on your general medical record. Or they should be, if they're not.

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i guess I don't like the clinic you run! ha ha. You say that ifIhad proof the sickness was debilitating then you'd allow me to have an abortion. pregnancy isdebilitating there aremanythings you can't do when pregnant. proof is there! or doyou get to randomly decide what reasons you like or not?

Not all women are so sick during pregnancy that they cannot even roll out of bed. MOST women are just fine and in fact enjoy their time being pregnant. Many women experience some side effects, but it's like arguing against birth control just because SOME women have bad side effects. All birth control should be illegal because SOME women get sick on it. That's a rather stupid argument don't you think?

Your symptoms would have to be truly debilitating with PROOF of this documented from your last pregnancy.

it didn't for me so there is some truth in that statement.

i am not ashamed and have nothing to hide. i tell my doctors. i just don't see the significance of keeping it in a medical record. why if it has no bad effects on someone? i didn't say it shouldn't be; i haven't heard why it should yet!

med records don't follow people around they depend on you to tell them. i know nothing about militarystuff, tho.

i don't understand the birth control analogy.

I wouldn't goto your clinic! it sounds like you would have a rigidity way of dealing withwomen who don't want to be pregnant. that'snota nice way to be to people dealing with that kindo f thing.

Why? Because it is a medical procedure. On an airplane, every maintenance check is recorded, even if nothing is wrong. Every repair is logged, even if nothing goes wrong. By the way, every procedure you undergo IS included on your records. These records are not public and information on them cannot be shared with anyone other than your doctor. If you are in for a cough, the doctor isn't going to bother looking to see if you've had an abortion, but it is still there and should be there.

Okay, why don't you understand the birth control analogy? Birth control is an option, and currently, pregnancy is an option. You are saying abortion should stay legal because SOME women experience deadly/debilitating effects from being pregnant. Well, SOME women experience deadly/debilitating effects from being on birth control. Should we outlaw birth control?

My (hypothetical) clinic would be a place where women could come to learn more about abortion - because some women really don't know - and enable the woman to choose LIFE. I wouldn't treat her like she was a victim of nature, like she was being debilitated by her pregnancy or that it was bad. I would not consider her pregnancy like a parasite or a cancer, and if SHE did, I would do my best to make her see otherwise. Pregnancy is a beautiful journey and should not be considered some kind of disease. Pregnancy is not an STD. The fetus/embryo is not a disease. The pregnant woman is not sick or afflicted. She is not handicapped.

Yes, I'm aware there are rare effects that can make a woman be debilitated etc during pregnancy, but the same thing can happen on birth control... and even because of abortion. There is risk everywhere, so I feel it's a completely irrelevant element.

Giving birth is risky, but another human being is born. Abortion is risky, and another human being is killed. Birth is much safer than its ever been, ensuring life for both mother and child. Abortion guarantees death.

xwoman74 wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

A natural end to a pregnancy is birth or miscarriage. Not abortion.

An miscarriage is an abortion.

I'm actually shocked I said that, and don't remember saying such. I know a miscarriage is an abortion, I fight about that all the time. O.o I think I was meaning "abortion" solely as the medical procedure.

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EiriForLife wrote:

I heard a lot of eHealth of women not going to their follow-ups... though I suppose any death/injury is then their fault, not the fault of the surgeon.

Yes, it is. The woman is responsible for her follow ups.

EiriForLife wrote:

That's why I'm pro-life. I don't think anyone should have the right to kill another human being unless their own life is directly in danger.

Considering all pregnancies can result in death, who are you to dictate which woman's life is good enough to risk?

Pregnancy COULD result in death, but it is rare these days. Abortion DOES result in death. There are two people involved in birth and abortion. In one case, both survive. In another, one is guaranteed to die.

futureshock wrote:

There is no such thing as "your medical record" in the civilian world. In fact, that lack of records can present a problem, when you have to tell each doctor and specialist your entire history over and over again, just from memory.

An abortion is something that is natural to the the female body. We abort far more pregnancies and "pre-pregnancies" (fertilized eggs which have not implanted) than we ever carry to term.

There is no difference to our bodies physically between an abortion performed by a physician or one performed by our bodies. They both involve the emptying out of our uteruses (uteri?) with embryos attached. I was filling out forms for a new gynocologist and one of the questions said, "How many pregnancies?" I asked my doctor to clarify if she meant carried to term, abortion, spontaneous abortion (also known as miscarriage), etc.

Since the next question was "How many born children do you have?", it was clear that she would be able to differentiate between number of pregnancies and number carried to term. I asked her how to differentiate on the form between abortions as in going to a clinic and having it done, and miscarriages. She said they are the one and the same. She didn't care how they happened, it was all the same medically.

The reason they ask the question in the first place is for those women who have a hard time conceiving, and have many miscarriages. That's a warning sign for endometriosis and a symptom of a few other things, and that's what she cared about.

An abortion, whether it was spontaneous or done in a clinic, leaves NO lasting marks to the body, no scars, nothing.

What about the women who hemmorhage to death? Injured cervixes, perforated uteruses? Sure, there's no outwardly visible scar, but that is still a permanent effect. I know these things are rare, but saying "abortion has no permanent effect" is a blatant lie.

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ust by using your own intuition and logic, you can understand why childbirth is so much more dangerous than abortion.

No, I can't.

Erulissë wrote:

I looked at prolifeamerica and she is posting over there. guess the crowd is more pleasing?

i had a laugh at some of the posters. seriously, "womb child" and this one dude (i assume) talks about women who don't want children like there is something pathologically wrong with them. lot of preaching. Really awful things said to each other. What a waste of bandwidth.

They're far from pleasing; I've just been going through a lot recently and only had time for one forum. I don't appreciate the constant attacks there, and the relentless questioning on here isn't very invigorating either.

futureshock wrote:

I don't think they are "extremists" though, I think they are the heart of the pro-life movement in the u.s.

The heart of the pro-choice movement includes people who approve of abortion up until labor. I consider that extreme, too.

[quote="EiriForLife"]I think I was meaning "abortion" solely as the medical procedure.

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Still wrong. D&C would be the medical procedure.

[quote="EiriForLife"]Pregnancy COULD result in death, but it is rare these days.

It is still there. And it isn't a situation that anyone should be forced to deal with because you value the other life first.

EiriForLife wrote:

The heart of the pro-choice movement includes people who approve of abortion up until labor. I consider that extreme, too.

I don't personally approve of it. But since it isn't my body or my choice, I won't dictate to another woman what she can do. That is the difference.

xwoman74 wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

I think I was meaning "abortion" solely as the medical procedure.

Still wrong. D&C would be the medical procedure.

"Abortion" is an acceptable name, as perhaps I don't just mean D&C? Perhaps I mean vacume aspiration? Perhaps I mean a medicated abortion without any surgery?

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EiriForLife wrote:

Pregnancy COULD result in death, but it is rare these days.

It is still there. And it isn't a situation that anyone should be forced to deal with because you value the other life first.

Abortion could result in death for the mother too (and DEFINITELY kills the child), so saying "women die giving birth" is completely irrelevant in my mind. I value the woman's life first - get a lot of flack for it on prolifeamerica - but if there is no medical risk (aside from the fact that she's pregnant) to the mother or child, I feel she does not have the right to kill it. Self defense is just that: YOUR life must be at a significant risk for self defense cases to be justified. A woman who has morning sickness but is fine the rest of the day? Sorry, that's not justifiable. On your back day after day in waves of nausea/diarrhea etc? You have a case then.

xwoman74 wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

The heart of the pro-choice movement includes people who approve of abortion up until labor. I consider that extreme, too.

I don't personally approve of it. But since it isn't my body or my choice, I won't dictate to another woman what she can do. That is the difference.

What about the baby's body? Would you REALLY let your best friend kill her child the day before her due date just because she didn't want to be pregnant anymore? Seriously consider this. An abortion at that stage in pregnancy is birth, plain and simple, with the added step of killing the infant via lethal injection. She should just give birth! She'd have to either way, and at least in one case, the child lives. If she doesn't want it, that's what adoption is for.

There is a time and place for everything. You can fix a problem up until a point, and then you just have to deal with the repricussions.

EiriForLife wrote:

What about the baby's body?

There is no baby.

EiriForLife wrote:

Would you REALLY let your best friend kill her child the day before her due date just because she didn't want to be pregnant anymore?

Not my body, not my choice.

EiriForLife wrote:

She should just give birth! She'd have to either way, and at least in one case, the child lives. If she doesn't want it, that's what adoption is for.

That is your opinion. It isn't my body or my decision. I can't force her to have it if she doesn't want to.

EiriForLife wrote:

There is a time and place for everything. You can fix a problem up until a point, and then you just have to deal with the repricussions.

Punishment... good motto. Children shouldn't be used for that.

EiriForLife wrote:

"Abortion" is an acceptable name, as perhaps I don't just mean D&C? Perhaps I mean vacume aspiration? Perhaps I mean a medicated abortion without any surgery?

Maybe you should use correct terminology, period.

EiriForLife wrote:

Abortion could result in death for the mother too (and DEFINITELY kills the child), so saying "women die giving birth" is completely irrelevant in my mind.

Well, it shouldn't be. But since most pro lifers don't care about the life of the woman, I'm not surprised by this comment. It isn't for you to decide if her life is worth risking. It is her choice.

EiriForLife wrote:

but if there is no medical risk (aside from the fact that she's pregnant) to the mother or child, I feel she does not have the right to kill it.

Every pregnancy has medical risks. Period. End of story. Just because they are not there from the start, doesn't mean they can't happen during or after.

EiriForLife wrote:

A woman who has morning sickness but is fine the rest of the day? Sorry, that's not justifiable. On your back day after day in waves of nausea/diarrhea etc? You have a case then.

Glad to know you think you should be able to justify why and when a woman is good enough to risk her life.

EiriForLife wrote:

Abortion could result in death for the mother too (and DEFINITELY kills the child), so saying "women die giving birth" is completely irrelevant in my mind.

Well, it shouldn't be. But since most pro lifers don't care about the life of the woman, I'm not surprised by this comment. It isn't for you to decide if her life is worth risking. It is her choice.[/quote]
How do I not care about the woman? There are two people to care about during a pregnancy, not just the woman. I want the solution that is safest for BOTH of them, and in many cases that choice is birth. If the woman is going to be harmed then of course she should get a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. But it is not her choice to kill her own child without a good reason. That child is alive and has a right to life.

By the way, if you're going to demand I "use the correct term" then I'd better not see you ever say just "abortion" when what you really mean is D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc.

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EiriForLife wrote:

but if there is no medical risk (aside from the fact that she's pregnant) to the mother or child, I feel she does not have the right to kill it.

Every pregnancy has medical risks. Period. End of story. Just because they are not there from the start, doesn't mean they can't happen during or after.

If the woman develops a life-threatening condition she should be allowed to get a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. If she doesn't develop a life-threatening condition then her life is not threatened (duh), end of story. If it is determined that continuing the pregnancy is too dangerous because her risk of developing a life-threatening condition is imminent, then she should be allowed to get a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc.

I am simply opposed to D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc with healthy mothers and healthy babies.

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EiriForLife wrote:

A woman who has morning sickness but is fine the rest of the day? Sorry, that's not justifiable. On your back day after day in waves of nausea/diarrhea etc? You have a case then.

Glad to know you think you should be able to justify why and when a woman is good enough to risk her life.

No ME. A doctor. You might have missed this, but we were pretending I was the hypothetical doctor at a hypothetical women's clinic that provided D&Cs or D&Es or suction aspirations or medical abortions etc.

xwoman74 wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

What about the baby's body?

There is no baby.

"Baby" means offspring. Are you saying the woman does not have offspring in her uterus? What's in there, a tree? Baby is a perfectly acceptable term for the unborn. So it child. There IS a baby. I say baby because I believe we were discussing late-term pregnancy, in which case it certainly is a baby by all definitions; it's even capable of living outside of the womb as a preemie. I also say baby because in other cases, we are often discussing pregnancy in general and not referring to any particular stage. Instead of saying zygote/embryo/fetus or making up new acronyms (zef), I just say baby, since that is what the unborn is.

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EiriForLife wrote:

Would you REALLY let your best friend kill her child the day before her due date just because she didn't want to be pregnant anymore?

Not my body, not my choice.

You didn't really think about it, you're just spouting pro-choice rhetoric. I used to be like that... then I decided to have an opinion of my own and not be a zombie. I decided "you know what, abortion kills a human being. That's not right."

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EiriForLife wrote:

There is a time and place for everything. You can fix a problem up until a point, and then you just have to deal with the repricussions.

Punishment... good motto. Children shouldn't be used for that.

If you worked in educuation you would realise that "repricussion" does not mean punishment. I don't want women to be "punished for having sex" as pro-choice loves to say it. But if I cut my hand and ignore it for 4 weeks and develop a severe infection and keep ignoring it, eventually they may have to remove my hand. Are they punishing me? No; it's simply the result of me ignoring the wound.

Many problems can be fixed with little or no problems early on. That's early-term D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. But if you wait too long, sometimes, things cannot be fixed in the same way, and sometimes they can't be fixed at all and you just have to deal with what happens. It's not punishment, it's just nature. It's the inevitable outcome.