War Between the Sexes Related to Abortion

At first this post elicited anger because it put forward one of the most tired, cliched anti-abortion arguments there is:
"If a women has a right to 'choose', then perhaps she could choose to use contraception or to not have sexual intercourse atr all."

However, I found myself in agreement with the last point made in the post. See it in bold:

Quote :

bicker
Comment No. 1223097
March 25 13:02
CAN
The author shoulod stick to screeds about race.
Abortion is no longer the purvey of "tories".
The upper limit for abortion ( 24 weeks) is now just about the same as the lower limit (26 weeks) for saving premature infants.
A foetus of 22 or 23 weeks is "kinetic" life; it moves about, sucks its thumb, turns its head and kicks with its legs....and it does so no matter what the mother is doing.
In other words, it already has a certain autonomy and a will to act indpendant of the mother's mood, state or condition.
Then there issue of 'choice'. If a women has a right to 'choose', then perhaps she could choose to use contraception or to not have sexual intercourse atr all.
Why is 'choice' only limited to whether or not to have an abortion.
Women need to take more controle over their sex lives and over their bodies and over WHO they sleep with. If they develope the guts to do as much, the need for abortion will be vastly reduced.
As the abortion law now stands, women are given an open-ended invitation to behave irresponsably...ie to satisfy the man... and that is definately wrong.
Abortion has benefitted men more than anyone else by allowing them free access to sex, 24/7, with that access being consequence free.
He spills the milk and the liberated pro-abortion women is left with the thankless task of mopping the floor....at the doctor's office.

source

futureshock wrote:

At first this post elicited anger because it put forward one of the most tired, cliched anti-abortion arguments there is:
"If a women has a right to 'choose', then perhaps she could choose to use contraception or to not have sexual intercourse atr all."

However, I found myself in agreement with the last point made in the post. See it in bold:

Quote :

bicker
Comment No. 1223097
March 25 13:02
CAN
The author shoulod stick to screeds about race.
Abortion is no longer the purvey of "tories".
The upper limit for abortion ( 24 weeks) is now just about the same as the lower limit (26 weeks) for saving premature infants.
A foetus of 22 or 23 weeks is "kinetic" life; it moves about, sucks its thumb, turns its head and kicks with its legs....and it does so no matter what the mother is doing.
In other words, it already has a certain autonomy and a will to act indpendant of the mother's mood, state or condition.
Then there issue of 'choice'. If a women has a right to 'choose', then perhaps she could choose to use contraception or to not have sexual intercourse atr all.
Why is 'choice' only limited to whether or not to have an abortion.
Women need to take more controle over their sex lives and over their bodies and over WHO they sleep with. If they develope the guts to do as much, the need for abortion will be vastly reduced.
[b]As the abortion law now stands, women are given an open-ended invitation to behave irresponsably...ie to satisfy the man... and that is definately wrong.
Abortion has benefitted men more than anyone else by allowing them free access to sex, 24/7, with that access being consequence free.
He spills the milk and the liberated pro-abortion women is left with the thankless task of mopping the floor....at the doctor's office.[/b]
source

Firstly, since when has any prochoicer limited the choice to abortion alone? Of course they should use contraception, but no sex?

Secondly, I too would agree with your bolded parts, Future. Legal abortion has perhaps, in some cases, allowed a man to walk away consequence-free from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy. However, criminalising abortion, and forcing the woman to give birth, doesn't in itself make the man face up to the consequences. He can just walk away, unlike the woman who is forced to remain pregnant against her will and then live with the consequences of adoption or forced motherhood.

So, yes, absolutely, for some men an abortion means they "get away with it". But its a small price for women to pay for control over their own uteruses. Besides, why exactly are anti-abortionists so bothered about women being left with the "thankless task" of abortion, when they are happy to impose on those same women the "thankless tasks" of forced pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood? The mind boggles.

I agree with you 100%. I would never want abortion to be illegal. EVER. This image just saddens me:

"He spills the milk and the liberated pro-abortion women is left with the thankless task of mopping the floor....at the doctor's office."

What would it take to infuse more women with a boost of self-esteem, so the ones who get used by men can walk away from those men?

even though it is their choice, would it not be easier to use a condom or birth control to lessen the chance of pregnancy all together, OR take Plan B to terminate any possible pregnancy?

i dont think they should make it illegal, but there are other actions both parties could take to make the possibility of a pregnancy not very likely.

if we all know that some men are ass holes, PLUS you never know if someone is carrying a disease, why would you jump in bed with them and let them wear no protection at all, and take the risk of a pregnancy or STD?

krystineM wrote:

even though it is their choice, would it not be easier to use a condom or birth control to lessen the chance of pregnancy all together, OR take Plan B to terminate any possible pregnancy?

i dont think they should make it illegal, but there are other actions both parties could take to make the possibility of a pregnancy not very likely.

if we all know that some men are ass holes, PLUS you never know if someone is carrying a disease, why would you jump in bed with them and let them wear no protection at all, and take the risk of a pregnancy or STD?

I don't think the message is that they weren't using protection. I'm sure they were. This is a hypothetical case and I think you are missing the bigger picture.

Do you think people who get abortions were not using bc?

no i dont think that. im sure some were or some werent and didnt think or care at the moment about the consequences.
but the reason why i asked that, was because the way that post was stated seemed like there was no protection when having sex. so sorry if i "missed the bigger picture"

krystineM wrote:

no i dont think that. im sure some were or some werent and didnt think or care at the moment about the consequences.
but the reason why i asked that, was because the way that post was stated seemed like there was no protection when having sex. so sorry if i "missed the bigger picture"

ok, i'm sorry if i sounded condescending...i didn't mean to.

Imagine the image in question with the notion that they used bc and were very responsible, etc., etc.
No matter what, accidents happen, and the woman is left with having to endure either pregnancy or

"He spills the milk and the liberated pro-abortion women is left with the thankless task of mopping the floor....at the doctor's office."

futureshock wrote:

What would it take to infuse more women with a boost of self-esteem, so the ones who get used by men can walk away from those men?

I was going to say along the lines of this...Maybe the choice that is an issue is who women are choosing to sleep with.

to look at the situation in a different light, maybe the woman is not intrested in having kids, does not plan on having kids, or is too busy living the party life, so getting the abortion to her, is no big deal on both parts.
the man doesnt become obligated to raise a child, and neither does the woman, they both are free to be partiers.

this is just looking at things differently.
im not saying that this could and is the case.

Erulissë wrote:

futureshock wrote:

What would it take to infuse more women with a boost of self-esteem, so the ones who get used by men can walk away from those men?

I was going to say along the lines of this...Maybe the choice that is an issue is who women are choosing to sleep with.

Excellent point.

krystineM wrote:

to look at the situation in a different light, maybe the woman is not intrested in having kids, does not plan on having kids, or is too busy living the party life, so getting the abortion to her, is no big deal on both parts.
the man doesnt become obligated to raise a child, and neither does the woman, they both are free to be partiers.

this is just looking at things differently.
im not saying that this could and is the case.

I'm sure there are people like that.

futureshock wrote:

krystineM wrote:

to look at the situation in a different light, maybe the woman is not intrested in having kids, does not plan on having kids, or is too busy living the party life, so getting the abortion to her, is no big deal on both parts.
the man doesnt become obligated to raise a child, and neither does the woman, they both are free to be partiers.

this is just looking at things differently.
im not saying that this could and is the case.

I'm sure there are people like that.

Yes, like me. Not interested in having kids, ever.

really?
Erulissë i thought you had kids, or a kid.
but hey its your decision, do you think it would change with time? or do you just have no intrest in it at all

krystineM wrote:

really?
Erulissë i thought you had kids, or a kid.
but hey its your decision, do you think it would change with time? or do you just have no intrest in it at all

I have no children. I am almost 30, I have never wanted children.

I'm feeling more and more adamant about not having kids as I get older.

thats an honest reply, your not the only one who doesnt have or never wants kids,
good for you i bet it gives you alot of free time!

krystineM wrote:

thats an honest reply, your not the only one who doesnt have or never wants kids,
good for you i bet it gives you alot of free time!

You're right, I have much more freedom than people with kids, but people w/ kids may look at it differently. (Like, they don't even think of it as a loss of freedom b/c they gain so much by having them).

I'm far too selfish to have children.

lol well at least you can admit that, and kids might not be a good thing for you.
but your right, people who do have kids feel like they have so much more because it opens up a brand new world to them.